|means something... a conversation with a RL myspace friend...
||[Feb. 8th, 2005|03:35 am]
I felt this was worth reposting... it's the most meaningful conversation Ive had in years... |
Current mood: contemplative
from a very new aquaintence of mine's journal::
I'm going to write a book about "coincidences"....
Current mood: contemplative
The strangest things happen to me all the freakin time.
A good example is last sunday combined with this past friday. In conjunction with recent events.. it's all very strange. ...
Last Sunday my friend Phil and I drove my friend Josh to Cape canaveral. On our way back were were supposed to go through Gainseville. Well We got lost. Ended up driving about 2 hours more than anticipated. We got hungry and stopped at a Taco Bell In Apopka, which is just outside of Whorlando.
On the drive through window was a sticker... a Spacebar sticker. I thought "hey thats that guy Arts band... wierd" and for some reason I was compelled to snap a picture of it.. (which is currently trapped in my lifeless digital camera).
No big whoop there right? Well... I get home and check this RE-cock-U-lously addicting deal called "Myspace" and my friend Susan. (my real life friend... ) Has sent me a profile to look at, with the message that i would "looooove this boy" etc. I click on the profile and lo-and behold it's Art. I write her back telling her in unremarkable fashion, that he'd been on my friends list for a while, and that he was one of the few people on there that I didn't actaully know face to face like. And of course I relayed the drive through sticker incident.
Still not too weird right?
Friday night. I went with my friend Josh (not cape canaveral josh) downtown to check out the super bowl festivities. We were down there for quite sometime. And we parked a pretty good distance away from everything, Way back on palmetto St which is behind the Arena (the bowels of Jacksonville) . In any case we were walking back to the car when I see a john deer tractor truck thing being driven by..... Art. They stop at the stop sign and I ask if his name is Art and I introduce myself. "this is how we meet!? Like this!?" Are words from Sir Arthur. I relay the sticker story to him and he tells me he Lives in Apopka now (wierd). We say nice meeting you blah blah blah then I walk back to my car.
Well I was looking at some pictures of Neal last night and he's wearing a spacebar T-shirt. In at least two of the pictures... I don't see how that relates.. but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Is it just me? Am I crazy? But all this is a Little odd right?
This kind of stuff happens to me all the time. ... sometimes its annoying because I want there to be some blatantly obvious meaning behind it,, and usually it's years before I can look back and go OH! I get it now. Sacred contracts and all that.. I really believe that everything happens for a reason. But please, tell me what reason or fateful occurence can come from my "boy from spacebar" inccident... ou.. I really need to start writing this stuff down!
This shit, and the way it relates to subatomic particle physics, is something of a hobby of mine...
will explain some of it as put forth by Jung
will explain a bit about causality as it applies to common subatomic physics principals.
fun stuff, most people don't notice or notice and write it off as coincidence, or the trite phrase "everything happens for a reason" which is overused and vastly misunderstood... but seems to be the tagline everyone uses to describe the events in their life. Mostly, they are right, but they still don't understand why they're right, or they attribute it to god or some other such nonesense that keeps them from actually having to learn something about the universe, thus shattering a lot of their previous notions about how and why it all happens.
beware, there is a lot of garbage written about this phenomenon attributing it to something spiritual or majikal... In all the reading Ive done, it all comes back to probability and an underlying order at the macroscopic level that tends to shape events up into our level of physical reality. And I've done a lot of reading on this sort of thing.
hope this helps
Date: Feb 7, 2005 08:33 PM
Body: What you're saying is that there is some reason behind all this?
I haven't checked out the links yet so this is strictly off of your words.
I don't attribute the occurences to God.
and I think I might've taken offense to the "trite" comment. But if I did I'm over it now.
what words can you use to sum up these kind of things?
I mean causality is basically the relation between a cause and its effect. So saying that everything happens for a reason is correct. But you're right most people don't look at it in the literal sense. they think divine intervention. or something to that effect.
have you ever heard of sacred contracts? This theory does put God, or some higher power at the steering wheel, but the basic meat and potatos of the theory hits a nerve with me.
its states that before we are born that we all sign a "contract" binding us to effect certain people in certain ways. thereby sending that person in the right path. and thus fullfilling a destiny of sorts.
Now this is how I see it. i think that everyone you meet inlife is bumping you along just a little. Like you for instance. maybe the whole reason I had class with Leah was to meet you so we could have this exchange. maybe you're supposed to help me define this belief of mine. Now I'm not saying that's it but its just an example. Kinda like run lola run. she bumps into someone and as they affect her path she effects thiers.
But like I was saying in my blog. I want instant gratification. Which I think most of us do. I want to know why these inccidents occur so often and what they mean.
Why did I see the boys band sticker receive his profile from a friend and run into him within a week? When i'd "met" him previously through yahoo.. then on Myspace... that part isn't as cruical. but I've seen him here in jacksonville before and he's seen me and we've never said anything to eachother. AND Why is it that my recently deceased friend (who's death has made me question myself emotionally) is wearing his bands tshirt in TWO of the photos I've managed to find of him?
I'm not thinking of this in romantic terms at all. I highly doubt that anything of that nature is meant to come of this. but WHAT is the point. If science can explain this I'd be thrilled. I'm a science nerd I love the whole quantum physics thing. I can't quite get my head around it but thats what makes it so interesting is my struggle to understand it.
ok sorry.. I went on a biit there.
i cant help you find the meaning, that's for you to figure out... maybe there isn't one, or not one very apparent right now, like you mentioned...
meaning is something I've always been of the opinion that we create... somthing along the lines of Voltair's "If God did not exist, It would be necessary to invent him"
In my studies and sleepless nights pondering things like this (that, ultimately, end up making me late for work or some other such appointment) I have concluded that we create meaning to keep us going... it's the reason the majority of people believe in one religon or another, with the tendency toward the one they're taught when they were young... If we believe there is some meaning to it all then we find the will to carry on regardless...
it's the reason the virgin mary is seen in a soup cracker somewhere in South America and people flock to churches every sunday to read from an outdated book that's been bastardized by thousands of years of conquest...
It's likely the reason our generation has been labled the "godless" generation... because we're pulling from some sort of collective source of knowledge that tells us that there is something more out there dictating the events of time.
Einstien and Rosenbug's theorys on time, the actual equations, seem to say thus:: that while time is relative to our position in space (time being a creation of the person in relation to some fixed constant) that the events that shape the universe, the birth and life cycle, creation of stars and supernovas that destroy galaxies...
all of this... has already happened.
it's something that has always troubled me. I've studied all manner of information I can find on it and all of it seems to say the same thing...
now granted, the math behind this is still called "theory" but the theory of some of the greatest thinkers ever seems to say this:: that everything that will happen, has already happened, and will happen again.
and Im probably just confusing the issue with you, as you weren't interested in time/space theory but syncronicity and causality... but I think they're linked.
A theory put forth by Hugh Everett is the parallel worlds thory, which is really just an interpretation of quantum mechanics...
The idea that multiple universes can exist has been used to explain why our universe seems fine-tuned for intelligent life. Life as we know it could not exist, or would be overwhelmingly unlikely to exist, if any of the major physical constants were changed by even small amounts. If this planet were just a mile or so closer to or further away from the sun, life would not thrive here... either too hot or too cold... we exist on this planet in the exact spot that allows life to flourish...
However, if a very large or infinite number of universes exist, each with a different set of arbitrary physical constants, then at least some will have the right conditions for intelligent life to develop.
it's possible, from this idea, to say that syncronicities, while maybe not having an exact meaning discernable from this universe, may have some inherant meaning in a universe we may never see...
follow me here:: you might have been best friends with, or in the same band with, this guy Art... in a slightly different time stream.
most people cant hang with this so feel free to tell me Im off my rocker if you please...
Quantum theory says that nature is discrete and that the universe (by definition) is technically finite, so the visible universe we inhabit is characterized by a finite amount of information; if space is infinite, this informational pattern is bound to repeat at vast enough distances. A back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that there should be an exact copy of you around 10 to the 10 to the 28th light-years away.
It's how, ultimately, we as a species will combine what we already know about physical chemistry (the structure of atoms to form molecules ets...) with physics to creat nano technology, which is really just the construction of machines on a level so small that we have to use probability to make it happen.... i.e. we have to flood a petri dish with enough atoms of a certain type that it's bound to form what we want it to form some very small percentage of the time... (totally off the subject, but what probably got me into this line of reading as I once saw myself as a chemist studying nanotech)
again:: that everything that has happened, is happening and will happen, has already occured and will occur again...
weird, I know...
it's fucked up my sleep patterns more nights than I can count...
and often makes me wonder why this particular point in time is worth living...
hell, Im probably loosing you and comletely off the answers you were seeking. I dont have them, I only have what I've read and the ideas I've thought, probably interrelated to some previous or parallel version of myself...
the basic premise is that everything does happen for a reason ( and you shouldnt take offense to me calling it trite, I mean only that it is lacking power to evoke interest through overuse or repetition, as the dictionary defines it ) and that what you've experienced happens all the time to people but most fail to notice it, or if they do they write it off.
long winded fukr, arnt i?
one more thing:: there's a premise put forth by a german (why all the great thinkers of the early part of the century were german?? don't know except maybe synchronicity... maybe in some parallel world hitler reached power and scienteists didn't dissent and the world was cast into WW3... maybe anything, I dont know but the fact is most were german...)
his name was Erwin Schrödinger and in 1935 he published an essay on The present situation in quantum mechanics in which his famous Schrödinger's cat paradox appears. This was a thought experiment where a cat in a closed box either lived or died according to whether a quantum event occurred. The paradox was that both universes, one with a dead cat and one with a live one, seemed to exist in parallel until an observer opened the box.
this introduced the observer as a condition of measurment for subatomics... something we had already accepted in physical science but from some reason was lacking in subatomic physics...
"One version of this argument derives from attempts to make sense of quantum theory. Take the famous paradox of Schrödinger's Cat—the unfortunate feline, who, because of the quantum superposition of possibilities, is simultaneously alive and dead. According to the "many-worlds" interpretation of quantum theory, Schrödinger's experiment splits the universe into two parallel copies, one with a live cat, the other with a dead one (and each with a version of you). Physicists who buy into this interpretation—and many distinguished ones do—claim that each universe splits into something like 10 to the 100th copies every second, all of them equally real. Yet, since quantum theory forbids these parallel worlds from interacting, there is no experimental way to confirm their reality"
that's paraphrased from an article that explains it better than I could word it.
Schrödinger's theory essentially says that we create a universe simply by the act of observation...
this explains why a subatomic particle never before discovered is suddenly discovered in the US with certain specific proporties, and a similar (read: exactly the same) particle is discovered at the same time in another part of the world (Germany and Russia are the other big science communities next to China, at least before the fall of the USSR) but this particle has slightly different properties...
they're the same thing, but behave differently based on the observer...
as you might have noticed, Ive been feeling something of a need to talk with people about this who dont attribute it all to God or something equally as silly...
I go on and on about it sometimes to my friends and they just tell me to quiet down, that Im not making sense...
sorry to talk your head (eyes) off.
more later maybe, as the conversation unfolds... if it does.
Robbin' the Hood
Release date: By 23 July, 1996
Date: Feb 8, 2005 05:50 AM
Subject: RE: RE: so...
Body: you didn't lose me. Not at all.
There is a book I've been looking for. I can't find it I think its out of print i ordered it once and my card had issues. And I can never remember the name of it or the author. It touches on that whole observation deal of schrodingers. Except it was explained as perception (i know, splitting hairs).
This is how it was put to me. you and I are sitting with our back to a brick wall. in this guys theory not only does that wall not exsist until we look at it, it appears different to the both of us once we do acknowledge it.
But we both know it as a brick was because this is what we've been taught. I know this falls in line with what you were explaining. And maybe I'm being redundant. But I just want you to know I understand what you're saying.
I don't think I was looking for answers per se, but more along the lines of acknowledgement that I'm not the only one this crap happens to. Everything DOES happen for a reason but the way you're saying it it's all because of science, cause and effect. And that sort of takes the human connection element out. I mean all manner of it. Not romantic. But wait.. let me try to clarify:
A "paralle universe" is like the answer to past-lives. Where when under hypnosis someone is seemingly remembering an exsistence from another time, maybe they are actually transcending the planes of exsistence?
Maybe rather than remembering another age they are seeing another version of theirselves. I like that.
Wow this is really hard to articulate. hmmm. If you chalk it all up to physics it makes are souls, our emotions irrelevant. And that bothers me. You yourself said that it made you wonder if this one was worth living. Maybe when we do see these occurences this synchronicity it's that part of us that really feels the emotions that recognizes a "soul" (if you will) and longs for contact with it. Kind of like magnetism.
I don't think we create meaning (although it would be easier to think that). I think that there really is a part of us that can reach out, that sees the connection. I think it's why we react to some people and ignore others. I think it's why around certain people you feel comfortable, like you've always known them.
I could get into the whole universal enery deal. But it's hard to explain and it would take forever to type it all out. But honestly it sort of explains and merges your theory and my concern about human connection... wow... I need to think on this some more.
I'm always looking to science to explain the supernatural.
Like Ghosts and the like. There is a part of me that wants to believe that these are actually the spirits of the dead. But theres also a big part of me that believes that theses are moments, sounds or emotions burned into the fabric of that space. I've seen "ghosts" I've experienced the seemingly unexplainable. and I can look at these occurences through the eyes of a believer or a scientist.
and both eyes are equally amazed by the possibilities.
we should have coffee or something sometime. I don't know many people who think on this stuff too much. However you seem to have a much better grasp of it than i do and it may frustrate you to talk to me about it..
wouldnt frustrate me in the least.
Carl Jung put forth the idea of a collective unconsciousness to explain some of the weirdness of synchronicity and his work studying the dreams of the scizophrenic patients he studied. A book Im currently trying to get my head around called "The Holligraphic Universe" explains some of this idea of his.
He spent many years in a mental hospital working with what society dubbed schizo's and documented many cases of synchronicity in his talks with them, and specifically, in their dreams there were many things he was at a loss to explain. He formulated an idea that there is a collective unconcious underlying the waking reality we percieve.
That when we dream our minds connect with this pool of thought.
The book, which is very good btw just better read slowly, puts forth the idea that schizophrenic people have less of a barrier in their minds between the conscious and unconscious collective. That somehow they are percieving a level of reality that you and I arn't and since their brains arn't capable of ordering it, tend toward what we call madness...
A part that struck a nerve with me said that Manic Depressives are perhaps even more pronouncedly in touch with this implicate order, wheras the schizophrenic only gets glimpses,t he manic is deeply involved and grandiosely identifies with its infinite potential. That he can't keep up with all the thoughts and ideas that come at him in so overwhelming a way and so has to lie, dissemble and manipulate those about him so as to accomidate to his expansive vista. The end result is, of course, mostly chaos and confusion with occasional outbursts of creativity and success in conensual reality. In turn the manic becomes depressed after he returns from this surreal vacation and once again faces the hazards and chance occurances of everyday life.
This is a broad explination, and ultimately just a theory, but being a manic depressive I somewhat identified with what it's trying to explain.
this doesnt take the human or emotional factor out of any of this. Take this next example::
Neils Bohr pointed out that if subatomic particles onyl seem to come into existance when observed, then it is pointless to talk of a particles properties until it's observed/measured. This didnt sit well with science, which is based largely on measurment of things. Einstein didn't much like this assertion because it implied an interconnectedness in the universe he didnt believe was possible.
Here's an example:: a positronium atom is an electron and a positron (an electron with a positive charge) Because a positron is an electrons anitparticle opposite, the two eventually annihilate each other and decay into two quanta of light or photons traveling in opposite directions. According to Quantum Physics no matter how far appart the photons travel, when they are measured they will always be found to have identicle angles of polarization. (spatial orientation of the photon's wavelike aspect as it travels away from it's point of origin)
Einstein, Boris Podalsky and Nathan Rosen put out a paper called "Can Quantum Mechanical Description of Physical Reality be Considered Complete?" In it they explained why the existance of such twin particles proved that Bohr could not possibly be correct. If two such particles were produced and allowed to travel a significant distance apart then they could be intercepted and their angles of polarization measured at precisely the same moment. If found to be identicle, as quantum physics predicts, and if Bohr was correct and properties such as polarization do not coalesce into existance until they are observed or measured, this suggests that some how the two photons must be instantaneously communicating with each other so they know which angle of polarization to agree upon.
The problem with this is that according to Einstein's Special Relativity, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, let alone instantaneously, for that would essentially break the time barrier and would produce all sort of paradoxes that time travel produces.
Bohr stood his ground and offered that rather than some faster than light communicatio was taking place, that subatomic particles could not be viewed as independant things since they did not exists until observed. Einstein was viewing them as seperate entities in his argument when Bohr says that tey are part of an indivisible system, interconnected at all times.
David Bohm was a physicist who got behind Bohr's moel of quantum mechanics but felt the idea of interconnetedness wasn't recieving the attention it deserved. He worte a book called Causality and Chance in Modern Physics where he challenged many assumptions commonly held by his collegues in the field. He said that the way science viewed causality was much too limited. Most effects were thought of as having only one or several causes. Bohm said that an effect could have an infinite number of causes.
as an example he used::
"If you asked someone what caused Abraham Lincoln's death, they might answer that it was the bullet in the gun. But a complete list of all the causes that contributed to Lincoln's death would have to include all of the events that led to the development of the gun, al the factors that caused Booth to want to kill Lincoln, all of the steps in the evolution of the human race that allowed for the development of a hand capable of holding a gun, and so on."
Of course he conceded that most of the time you could ignore the vast cascade of causes that led to any one effect, but he felt it necessary for scientists to remember that no single cause-and-effect relationship was ever seperate fromt he universe as a whole.
If all of this is happening at the subatomic level, then it makes sense that phenomenon like this should manifest itself in our level of reality... thus you find instanaces of synchronicity or interconnectedness between seemingly unrelated events. You find instances of twins sharing the same dream while being oceans apart, or knowing the exact moment their twin is hurt in an accident. You find a certain symbol (sticker) shows up in the least likely of places consistently after a major event or preceding it...
I think all of this has an explination burried in our minds so deep that we may never come to realize all of it's potential before some more primitive asshole decides it would be a great idea to set off an atomic weapon and obliterate life on this planet, or we so fuck up the balance of nature on this planet that it is uninhabitable for millions of years (again).
My faith in humans to reach a collective potential where we're actively seeing all of these things around us at all times is only rarely energized... as in the case of you bringing up synchronicity and us having this discussion.
it was supposed to happen... it's happened before...
it will happen again.